PHIL 103 E, Wednesday, 10-4-17

Plato, "The Meno" (Parts I + II)

audio/mpeg PHIL_103_E_Wed_10_4_17.mp3 — 22066 KB


Transcript

Philosophy 103E Wednesday October 4 2017 perfect law on Monday I was telling you that the purposes of understanding anything special something like complex test like the Meno you need to see our it is a whole host of parts here are the three parts thanks here how many times does me know try to answer the question what is virgin three times and each time Socrates ask questions about his definition that he cannot satisfactorily answer use this process of any benefit to Meno no so you probably feel the same way about sports drive you’re here you are writing Los Angeles sanitary arrow each or read your wall ask you some more questions to get the logs back in the process is of no benefit why even if that’s not true message place is truly the case of me I’m passing those like this photo that it is of no benefit to me I want understand her answer now you Santa overhears this and think this holder is reflecting I think at least part of what Nina thinks for the which is that the effort to say what virtue is it Is pointless and The word I was going right up there but I’ll who knows how to pronounce that word your hand feudal lord something to say futile but usually lovely and beautiful and what is it me efforts get nowhere with it so that’s the latest photo feels and this is a sensitive reading on her card and I’m sure many of you share this because and that Meno feels that way in fact the second part of the Meno when I ask in the first two classes today Will will have our own questions answered affect got some of their answers questions won’t deprive us of the opportunity are when I asked what was that parties in both classes I got a correct answer both time and then there was there the answer was how is knowledge acquired that really is that however although it is what part is about loses some of the drama this dialogue very drama that is Buddha what expressing feelings of futility and frustration and since those feelings are probably shared wanted we are another everybody in the class it wouldn’t seem to be a good idea to exclude them from our consideration so the way he expresses the idea is not how is knowledge possible that he takes the position that it is or how is not require a position that isn’t acquired ha ha therefore it is wordy even possible Meno answer is no now if you think about it in relation to the first part that that expresses the kind of feeling the scooter was expressed and Miguel clearly does not want to continue so the problem that Meno raises that he comes the discussion of the second part is an attempt by me know whatever else might be it is an attempt by mean I’ll take get out of answering some questions if questions like what is virtue cannot be answered if Learning is impossible is No point in wasting your time trying to cause that is what futile futile me your efforts will be without fruit fruitless therefore when I talk about thinking about the park and how they fit together this is what I mean this is a story of the discussion between two people in which one person raises the question what was mean the original question what did he want to tell him he didn’t raise the question what is you what question did he race tell you so Sylvie is one of four alternative alternative what what are the four alternatives alternative saying what are what are circle square and triangle they’re giving 331 Shea okay so what are some of the all other alternatives besides far what know that what only 37 come at your house or at you’re your local mosque or other assemblies institution you Wanted to say something that’s true so that that’s why changes on how to get it from have come to happy because when you’re born with it you don’t get it yes practice practice is being distinguished from learn don’t always separate those two but what do you think the differences Webster not necessarily when you when 24th do you have practice closer okay so you were wrong wishing you a better practicing curly candy on 1000 and like when people my wife is a pretty good piano player because when she was younger she never wanted to practice Thursday good lesson in any way what is the practice of eating do not Learning Joe because you you come here on Monday Wednesday for two hours or an hour and 83 when are you supposed to do what we call the student does sorry prior to engaging learning activity on her own between that would be true learning as well as practicing so so that’s a good point to point C so let’s try again what what how many different John Socrates lecture okay an example but you don’t you don’t want to limited today well that sounds like a lecture again so you’re sounds to me the reason I’m calling you on it it’s a good point but it’s got a problem that I don’t always go because it seems to eliminate Socrates does Socrates tell people what virtue is not what you saying I could show you where he lives but not many of the books in your so you don’t want to be in a hurry to generalized authority never doubt that while you can but any experience you had a Socrates questions now that one person and when I said whom I mean what kind of person why does he why does he think they know the answer yes that’s correct while my reflections as part of effort uses alright he charged his father John but basically simpler than that ask people questions about what they themselves say later so and he doesn’t answer the question because what about yourself he knows nothing now we’ve already learned in this statement he knows nothing is something that has to be thought about and there’s certain ways of taking it in which is obviously not true when when PS use of roses are white practice stories about the gods in Homer and Hesiod and saw he said you believe those stories and that Socrates what what story pantyhose yes so intimately that sense of the word no no we had a number of different words for know we more talk about somebody I understand being talk about comprehending no lack of clarity is exactly what it means and I tried to clarify that a little bit by saying he’s comparing himself what a wisdom but initially surprised to discover that God God he comes to understand it because he’s got wisdom but I’m not comparison of God maid NHK get back to the Meno with being home he says come back here if I don’t know what it is and he wouldn’t ask me know what you say peoples we we first infusion I cannot have people sleeping over right book to read a history of this event whatever those things are helpful you will in the middle of our dialogue in order to get out of bath yeah and yeah imagine if you’ll probably do things like this Time another bar on another level is that it raises the real issue and it is have some degree of plausibility to us as a fresh eyes we’re not getting anywhere now I sorry to ask you about this because I wanted to show you remember you understand things better when you see the parts and how they relate to each other you are stand apart better when you see how it relates to the other part to be a part of something is not just to be what you are alone it’s to be what you are investing so I hand this is only an– One arm Home part is my original idea it’s not at all far far far far from bad you parking whole is the nature of criticism that makes of the third definition third attempt at defining virtue the first two are about one so triangle seen were actually different but call them all triangle that has recently different you don’t have a square circle on that list right so if you’re going to define something you have to see how different we are in some way to say otherwise he wouldn’t call them examples constantlyAre there many different kind of human rights and we have different kinds of experiences with the different kind but we’re going to call all humor funny and tonic and something something in common Socrates teaches me on this when you can find something he had just given this you have to show what the list hasn’t home and when mean I’ll try again he is definition that involve one I’ll several one of many work say virtues so now are not talking about examples we’re talking about kinds of virtue in addition we’ve been using from we talked about piety in it Saturday suggest to you the prototype he is a kind of justice because justice in general health relations between beings and interrelations are to human being call is: justice but of the relations are divine being recall it paepae okay so we got a couple different versions there to related to each other justice five if you’re if there’s a wreck if you’re at war what kind of virginity to be a fighter sites and skills to be fast and strong and stuff like that now all of all of these are moral in some sense what do you need for Friday current drive for has to do with this fear what is threatening look friends what’s good Life itself is something we should fear I somebody does not fear what is dangerous and threatening to what is good somebody doesn’t care about what’s good for food and drinking sex and what’s the virtue with respect to the what term is used for no knowledge to be involve with all of these self restraint yes that’s the back translation issues sawhorses from me Greek turn is sometimes it translates a text congratulating to be right self restraint or moderation can friends usually we don’t blame people desire sex or her food or forgery the people we blame about the same everyone who are our hard earned it out okay so there’re a lot of different versions of their virtue but they are the one thing because they’re all virtues got a similar problem listed examples of actions that are virtuous are the opposite each and everyone of them a virtue and then with the third episode know that Mina learns that from Socrates and then for the third day me I’ll give the definition it has to do with desire and power yeah I’m not how do bad when are you so but not too much okay long as we can really you hungry and I CCKBuy Santana is already given us the answer sheet house some pretty bad right would’ve preferred to self-respect right now so me know Learning when a wrong turn out really so what is the advocate need your definition Fowler knowledge and want to feel that it’s good you have to know that is good because always deciding out